Celebrating Shirley Jones: A Nostalgic Tribute to an Entertainment Icon, Part 1

Join us on a nostalgic journey as we pay homage to Shirley Jones, an icon whose voice and talent have captivated us for generations. As she approaches her 90th birthday, we celebrate her remarkable ascent from a small town in Pennsylvania to becoming a beloved figure in American entertainment. Our heartfelt tribute features her transition from a budding singer to a shining star under the tutelage of Rodgers and Hammerstein, and how her legacy echoes through her family, including her son, Shaun Cassidy. We share personal anecdotes and insights into the choices that shaped her career and the enduring impact she made on stage and screen.

This episode isn't just a look back at Shirley's illustrious past; it's a deep appreciation for the classics that defined an era. We revisit "Oklahoma!" and the decision that led Shirley to the small screen with "The Partridge Family," where she deftly balanced stardom with motherhood. We peek behind the curtains of musical movie magic, discussing the making of "Oklahoma!" and the trials and triumphs of its production. With each note of "Oh, What a Beautiful Morning," we're reminded of the timeless quality of Shirley's performances and the iconic roles that have stood the test of time, from the wholesomeness of Marian the Librarian in "The Music Man" to the dramatic depths she explored in "Elmer Gantry."

We wrap up Part 1 by turning the spotlight on Shirley's early career. We express our deep admiration for her path to stardom, sharing how her journey has inspired us and countless fans across the globe. We extend an invitation to all listeners to continue this enchanting conversation through our social media and YouTube page. Tune in with us as we celebrate the magic of Shirley Jones's lasting legacy in entertainment, and remember, the stories and memories we share today are a testament to the joy she's brought into our lives.

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Transcript

Tribute to Shirley Jones

Speaker 1 0:00

We say yo, why you cry all the way? We're only saying you're doing fine, oklahoma, oklahoma, you're OK.

Speaker 2 0:15

Don't sigh and gaze at me. Your sighs are so like mine, your eyes mustn't go like mine.

Speaker 1 0:36

People will say we're in love.

Speaker 2 0:51

Ah, what's the use of wondering if he's good or if he's bad? He's your feller and you love him. That's all there is to that. Why should a woman who is healthy and strong Blubber like a baby if her man goes away Weeping and wailing how he's done her wrong? That's one thing you'll never hear me say. Being in love used to be my favorite dream. Oh yes.

Speaker 3 1:38

I've been in love more than anybody else has, I guess.

Speaker 4 1:43

Yes, she became the first and only singer to be put under personal contract. And then she got 1955.

Speaker 5 1:47

Oklahoma. That's where I live. As I studied into this, I realized, even though it was based on Oklahoma, it wasn't filmed here because there were too many wells and stuff and it was supposed to look like it was a movie from 1906. And so they actually filmed in Arizona.

Speaker 3 2:09

Everybody can tell I'm that stokin' Welcome to the Sean Squad Society Podcast with your hosts myself, cindy, doris and Madonna, where we invite you to share in our enthusiasm and reminisce about all things Sean Cassidy, from his teen idol days to his recent adventures.

Speaker 4 2:42

back on the road again.

Speaker 5 2:44

Please join us for the stories and memories that connected us to those happy days that helped create the Sean's Squad Society podcast.

Speaker 3 2:53

Shirley Jones is going to be 90 this year and we want to celebrate that.

Speaker 4 2:59

I mean she's American treasure, Shirley Jones, she is. You just can't call her Shirley Jones. This is American treasure. Shirley Jones, she is. We just can't call her Shirley Jones. This is American treasure. Shirley Jones, she sure is. Six decades in acting and theater. The woman is like everybody's favorite mom. She is I don't care what they say about Carol Brady, I say beautiful and talented. So yes, we are going to dedicate this episode and salute the life of Shirley Jones 90 whole years.

Speaker 3 3:34

Yes, you're still going strong, Shirley. We are privileged to do this for you.

Speaker 4 3:39

And it is a privilege and an honor to make such a great career.

Speaker 5 3:46

To just review everything she did in her life yes, yeah, and to have so many talented, beautiful sons too, exactly what an honor, what an honor.

Speaker 3 3:56

Career family. She had it all.

Speaker 4 3:59

So, cindy, you know Shirley Jones and we were going to have a little discussion about her. She was born in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 3 4:09

Her parents, I think, owned a bar or a brewery, a brewery, a brewery, a brewery, if I could say that correctly.

Speaker 4 4:17

Which kind of surprises me, because I thought Pennsylvania was Amish country and I didn't know they could have beer and breweries and things like that.

Speaker 3 4:28

Yeah, I didn't know either, until I read about it.

Speaker 4 4:30

Yeah, right there where she was born there was. The fact that they had one proves that they could, and I guess from early on she was doing like singing with her church.

Speaker 3 4:42

In church, I think at school.

Speaker 4 4:44

Yeah.

Speaker 5 4:45

Singing with her church In church, I think, at school. Yeah, Well, it's neat because we can listen to. Like you know, Sean talk about that in all of his shows and now when I go back and I'm reading about her, I'm thinking you know what? That's why Sean told us that. Oh, he did appreciate that. He said that about his you know his parents, or his grandparents.

Speaker 3 5:03

Yeah, yes, their history of his mother's side, yes, Jones's.

Speaker 4 5:07

He was sharing all of that with us, even the story, and there was this man I think his name was John Fernley or something like that. He was like a casting director for Rodgers and Hammerstein Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah, I read about that. So Shirley went to her casting calls and this man was so impressed.

Speaker 3 5:28

But I think this wasn't planned. They went to New York for a vacation and somebody suggested hey, there's a casting call for Rodgers and Hammerstein. She didn't even know who they were at the time, but she decided to go to it.

Speaker 4 5:41

Well, there you go. But he was super impressed, this casting director. He was just all impressed and he got in touch with Richard Rodgers.

Speaker 3 5:51

He was like hey listen to out there rehearsing.

Speaker 4 5:57

And this guy says I want you to hear that Shirley, and Shirley was so good that Richard Rogers called his partner.

Speaker 5 6:12

Yeah, oscar Hammerstein always really enjoyed singing, but she was never conceited over it and she always gave credit to God for giving her that, you know, ability, and so I thought that was really sweet that she recognized her talent. But she didn't take it for granted. And then she said that she liked singing also because it made her mom happy. Her mom was very impressed with her voice as well.

Speaker 4 6:47

And I learned that she took early voice lessons. Yes, so that's how she learned to sing that beautiful. I don't even know, because I'm not a singer, but all those different ranges she could sing. She learned that early in her career.

Speaker 5 7:06

Yeah, she was quite young. She sang in the choir and she was the youngest one in the choir to sing. So, like you said, doree, she started at a very young age compared to most.

Speaker 4 7:19

Yeah.

Speaker 5 7:20

Right right.

Speaker 3 7:21

But before the singing started, she wanted to be a veterinarian instead.

Speaker 5 7:27

Yes, but there were times, even in her life, when she actually wondered why did I go into show business? Maybe I should have, you know, kept the dream of wanting to become a veterinarian. So she went back and forth in her mind thinking well, you know, maybe I should have taken that other road thinking well, you know, maybe I should have taken that other road, yeah.

Speaker 4 7:49

And then you know, later in life it got easier for her because she chose to do her television series, which made her life easy for her Right at the time We'll talk about that. But you know it was hard. She wanted to raise her family and this whole thing. She was a sought after actress and it was hard for her to act and do her raising her family and things like that.

Speaker 3 8:11

And traveling yeah.

Speaker 5 8:12

She said that it would make her life easier. But she also knew what she had heard. And what she had heard is that if she were to do a sitcom like this which she decided not to take the one with the Brady Bunch, but she chose this one because of the music that was going to go with the story and everything together. But she heard and she felt like this was the truth, that if she went into one of these shows that continued like this, that she may lose her chance to be a big movie star.

Speaker 4 8:47

It'll jump in, it'll typecast her. If she took the Partridge family, that would type. They told her you will be typecast for the rest of your career, but it was worth the gamble to her Because she could raise her kids and she could be that mom.

Speaker 5 9:03

You know, she went on the set and she did that, but then she came home and she was that mother as well, and so it worked out for her, that's right, yeah.

Speaker 3 9:11

So let's back up and go to the first thing she tried out for was Right, going right back to Rodgers and Hammerstein.

Speaker 4 9:21

So they put her on personal contract. Never before had anybody been on personal.

Speaker 3 9:27

Yes, she became the first and only singer to be put under personal contract and then she got in 1955.

Speaker 5 9:36

Oklahoma, that's where I live. As I studied into this, I realized, even though it was based on Oklahoma, it wasn't filmed here because there were too many wells and stuff and it was supposed to look like it was a movie from 1906. And so they actually filmed in Arizona. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 9:57

That's what I read Yep, because the landscape looked like what they wanted. They needed something to look more like that.

Speaker 5 10:06

But I still feel a connection because it is called Oklahoma. And then they did show Claremore, which is 30 minutes from here, and you know there's so much I learned just studying into statehood and stuff and what the climax was to this movie and it had to do with the statehood and it had to do with, you know, the cowboys and how they thought of Oklahoma. Yeah, what was this about.

Speaker 5 10:29

Well, the original Broadway production opened March 31, 1943. It was a box office hit and they had like 2,212 performances and it had been inspired something to do with Love Boat. Do you guys know anything about that?

Speaker 4 10:47

only love boat. I know it's the love boat from the 70s.

Speaker 5 10:51

Yes, well, I know that drees always has this in her head, so she knows a lot more than I do, so I just thought I would bring that up. But it even has like a 15 minute dream ballet in it where you know Lori struggling with her feelings, and I'm sure we'll talk about that in just a little bit. But Rodgers and Hammerstein's having set the standards and established the rules of musical theater still being followed even today. It is set in a Western Indian territory which is here in Oklahoma just after the turn of the century, indian Territory, which is here in Oklahoma just after the turn of the century.

Speaker 5 11:27

The high-spirited, you know, where the local farmers and the cowboys going against each other. And then it has the colorful background and it has Curly. Of course he's very handsome, he sings really well, and then it has Lori, the pretty farm girl, and then they play out their love story and I actually really liked it, although the road to true love will never run smooth. Just like in this show, these two lovebirds are headstrong romantics and so you know their journey is a bumpy road, like everybody's, and it's just like going over an Oklahoma country road. The whole show is like that. The whole show is like that, yes, and then they begin a new life, you know, in a brand new state, and that ends up being the climax of the movie, and that is Oklahoma. That is where I'm at Territory.

Speaker 4 12:15

Oklahoma. The main characters are Laurie.

Speaker 5 12:18

Laurie.

Speaker 1 12:18

Williams.

Speaker 5 12:19

Yeah, and the cowboy Curly McClain.

Speaker 4 12:22

Okay, and Gordon McRae played Curly, correct? Yes, and Shirley Jones was Laurie yes, and then it was a whole cast of other characters. I found it interesting that Eddie Albert, who went on to be on Green, Acres, Green Acres right, he was in it. He was in there too. I liked his character. It seems to always be some sort of traveling salesman.

Speaker 3 12:47

There's a theme right. There's a theme to these movies Back then, it was the traveling salesman that falls in love.

Speaker 5 12:53

Yeah, and then the romance and the dancing and the singing and the con artist and the cowboys and the fights and the rivalry and getting the pretty girl. We still have a little bit of that in the movies today.

Speaker 3 13:06

So you were talking that back in 1943, it started as a stage production and then in 1955, it became a movie.

Speaker 5 13:14

Yes, and I wondered well, what's the difference? Well, the ending is the difference. You know, they use Judd in a different way in each one. He dies differently in each one, even though it's with the knife, one is I don't know. But there's two different ways that they have him end his life with that movie and with the actual show and actually performance live stage.

Speaker 4 13:36

I just want to talk a little bit about the character Judd and I have this whole thing about. I saw Oklahoma as a little girl. I watched it. You know you stay up late and you watch these old movies and I was really taken by Shirley Jones and we were talking about her beautiful singing voice, how she had that range, but I forgot what the plot was about. A few days ago Cindy said what's Oklahoma about? And I said you know, I really couldn't tell you. So when I watched it again now I remember why I forgot the whole plot.

Speaker 4 14:13

I like the singing but there's the love triangle and I think there's a little bit to be said about the way Laurie treated the man in her life. She had her suitor who was Curly. He really liked her. Curly likes Laurie, but he wants to go to the dance with her, but Laurie, laurie's kind of headstrong and she's like well, you went to the last minute to ask me I'm not going, I'm going with Judd. Well, judd is like the farmhand, he, I mean you wait till the last minute to ask me I'm not going, I'm going with Judd.

Speaker 4 14:50

Well, judd is like the farmhand, I mean, you know, not farmhand the ranch hand, he helps them, he helps Lori and Aunt Ellard, and Lori kind of plays around with his heart. She asks him to go, knowing I think it doesn't say it in the movie, but I think Laurie knows he likes her and he wants to be with her, and she messes with him a little by going. Well, you know, if Curly waits so long to ask me, I'm just going to ask Judd. Well, I thought that that wasn't very nice and I guess in the 50s it was a musical and maybe I'm overthinking it. But I really didn't appreciate the way these women went around land. Even you know, Annie, she played around with her man's heart. She was like kissing every guy.

Speaker 5 15:46

She was confused and she admitted it, though she wasn't trying to be sneaky. She would say well, I do this with this one, this and this one and this one, but I can't help it. At least she admitted it.

Speaker 4 16:00

She did admit it, she was candid and she was out there like I'm just going to go and do it and I can't help it. I can't help it, even if my daddy did offer me up to the guy that had 50 bucks. You give me 50 bucks, you can have my daughter.

Speaker 5 16:15

I thought that was rude. That was rude of the dad. I could not believe that he's offered up his daughter.

Speaker 4 16:21

It was sad offered up his daughter. This was sad. So now you're starting to see the little things like in the 50s that were okay that I'm having a little trouble in 2024. Like what dad offers up their daughter for money.

Speaker 5 16:36

Lori was drug induced by that little bottle of potion that was sold to her, and her aunt even warned her you really don't need to be wasting your money on that. But then she took off that lid because I guess, like normal people, you know with things that they may take or do it would take her away and she just needed to relax. So she took off the lid and she smelled it and then she started hallucinating and she started having like a colorful nightmare. And then they of course had to add the tornado, because it's, you know, oklahoma and the wind.

Speaker 5 17:11

And yeah. And then you know that's what people see when they think of Oklahoma. So I didn't know what you girls would think about that piece of the movie. I think they could have left it out. But the more I think about it you know that actually is like reality, where people do certain things and maybe the potion is going to take them away for a little bit, and but it showed her who she really wanted to be with, because it gave her that nightmare, Right.

Carousel Discussion

Speaker 4 17:41

And that's what he told her. That's what the character, the traveling salesman he said you smell this smelling song. It'll let you know who you want to be with. Yeah, Okay, You're right To answer your question, Dame. I think it's a good part of the movie. I just thought it was too long. I mean, artistically it shows it was a big part, shows it was very artistic.

Speaker 5 18:07

I mean it was done so well, it really was a big part of the movie, so I wanted to say something about it because of that potion there. Yeah, it's just kind of a fun the movie. I think Cindy said it best the movie was not what we really thought it was no, it wasn't, because once you put more thought into it, it was more than just dancing around and singing and something beautiful to sit down and enjoy.

Speaker 3 18:34

But did you notice? In the book too, shirley said that the making of the movie turned out to be a nightmare for her because it wasn't what she expected it to be.

Speaker 5 18:41

You're correct. I read that Well. First of all, she was very uncomfortable with everything they made her do, like they had to use the wax on her above her lip, I guess they never done that before and they went and yanked it off and then they had to put ice back on it. She just hated that and she hated the number of hours. I don't think I read that.

Speaker 3 18:59

Yeah, I read that too, that it was long hours 15 hours a day for nine months. Yeah, it was a long time, that's crazy.

Speaker 5 19:09

And so I'm here watching this beautiful I thought it was beautiful this beautiful movie, and we don't realize what was behind the scenes and how much work they had to do just to give us that program.

Speaker 3 19:21

Right. So she says she made up her mind not to be difficult. She went along with what they wanted her to do. Yeah, you know she didn't like the upper lip wax because she said her, she said it came in darker after it came in.

Speaker 4 19:33

Yes, I read that too. Yeah, so now it just grew in darker.

Speaker 3 19:37

Yeah, so she didn't like that. That's a warning for all of us. I think it was a learning experience for her with this movie.

Speaker 5 19:43

Yeah, but to me, that's. I mean practicing for 15 hours a day. That's too much. But as far as waxing the upper lip, oh well, it's just what we have to do.

Speaker 3 19:52

You know, it's just like it's part of Hollywood stuff.

Speaker 5 19:55

Yes, Well, I even have to do that sometimes.

Speaker 3 19:58

She also had a crush on her co-star, Gordon McRae.

Speaker 4 20:02

Did she now Yep?

Speaker 3 20:03

She says working with Gordon McRae was heaven she loved the script and adored the songs in the movie, but the long days she wasn't sure about if she wanted to do that for the rest of her life. Yeah, yes, it was a challenge.

Speaker 4 20:17

Let's talk about the music a little bit. How about? Oh, what a Beautiful Morning. Everybody knows. Oh, what a beautiful morning.

Speaker 1 20:27

Everybody knows oh, what a beautiful morning, oh what a beautiful day. I got a beautiful feeling, everything's going my way.

Speaker 5 20:42

Doreese, I went around the house singing that. After watching it I had to sing that just walking through my kitchen and everywhere. Pretty funny, because it's so catchy, catchy, it's contagious.

Speaker 4 20:53

You start singing it and all you have to know is the first few chords, the first opening line, and everybody starts singing.

Speaker 5 21:05

At the beginning. I know it starts. It starts 15 minutes of just singing and dancing around. I don't think there are any other shows that have that in the very first 15 minutes.

Speaker 3 21:12

And I think Rodgers and Hammerstein created this musical-type movie.

Speaker 2 21:17

This was a big thing back then.

Speaker 3 21:19

So they kept doing that same thing over and over again with the other movies.

Speaker 4 21:23

That was their trademark. That was their trademark, that was their stamp. They loved doing musical, movie musicals. They loved it. It was a good movie.

Speaker 5 21:33

It takes you back. I mean there's good and bad. And guys, did you know that, I guess? Did Shirley actually come back to Oklahoma to celebrate the 100th birthday for the state?

Speaker 3 21:43

Oh, I don't know.

Speaker 5 21:44

Maybe I thought I had read that, but I may be incorrect.

Speaker 3 21:48

Right, and one other little tidbit with Oklahoma. This show went overseas to Paris, and that's when she first met Jack Cassidy. Oh okay, she was cast in Oklahoma, you know, when they played overseas.

Speaker 4 22:03

That's her first encounter. Okay, that's her first encounter.

Speaker 3 22:05

That was her first encounter with Jack.

Speaker 4 22:08

So, jane, the last song I want to bring up Oklahoma. Tell me you're not running around the house singing Oklahoma.

Speaker 5 22:16

I will now. You just got it back in my head. I would sing it right now, but people would turn the podcast off.

Speaker 4 22:23

I know Every one of these songs. Every time I mention one, they're singing it and I can just hear everybody at the same time going Oklahoma okay.

Speaker 5 22:36

It's just such a great song. Oklahoma, it's such a catchy name. I'm just getting started, I'm not trying that.

Speaker 3 22:42

No no.

Speaker 5 22:44

Come on.

Speaker 3 22:44

Cindy. She did another movie a year later called Carousel Carousel, right after Oklahoma. And she hated all the grueling work on.

Speaker 4 22:54

Oklahoma, but one year later, there she is doing Carousel.

Speaker 3 22:58

Yeah, in 1956, she did Carousel.

Speaker 4 23:01

Now, cindy, I got to admit I have never seen.

Speaker 3 23:04

Carousel? I haven't either. I've heard about it, but I haven't seen it.

Speaker 5 23:09

It's another one with romance. Exactly what's the storyline?

Speaker 3 23:13

Yes, it is basically an American drama fantasy musical film based on the 1945 Rodgers and Hammerstein stage musical of the same name, and it was based off of another movie called.

Speaker 4 23:27

Lilium.

Speaker 3 23:28

It could be Something like that. It was based off another movie and they just changed things with this production. What's kind of the plot? Well, this main character, billy Bigelow, is his name. He's a rough-talking, macho, handsome carousel barker. You know, at the carnival, shout out at the carnival, yeah. So he meets an innocent mill worker named Julie Jordan. She lives in the small town of Booth Bay, harbor, maine, and they fall in love. But they both get fired from their jobs and Billy pays too much attention to Julie and gets a wrath of jealousy from the carousel owner, mullen and Julie because she's violated a curfew or something like that she's imposed by wealthy mill owner Mr Bascombe.

Speaker 5 24:16

But, in short, doesn't the husband die and there's some kind of plot where he gets more time with her Right Well what I thought I had heard was that and just seeing the little bit that, I saw that, like normal people, they had a strain on their relationship and so they had to resort to other ways to get money. Oh, Is that true?

Speaker 4 24:40

I don't know, I never saw it.

Speaker 3 24:42

Well, it says Billy and Julie marry. They live at the Seaside Spa and Restaurant of her cousin Nettie. Julie admits that Billy is frustrated and bitter because he can't find work, so he starts hitting her.

Speaker 4 24:55

See, here's another. I'm telling you something about those. They're supposed to be fun To me. Musicals are fun, exciting, upbeat, and now you've got domestic violence, yeah Right.

Speaker 5 25:08

Yeah, things were different back then. It was like some of it was almost okay, it was.

Speaker 4 25:14

That's definitely true, dame. In the mid-century it was a different lifestyle, a different way of thinking. Yeah, yeah, I even remember watching the Honeymooners and they made jokes of Ralph telling Alice he's going to knock her to the moon. So it was not, as you know, right? So there enters domestic violence, and then what?

Speaker 3 25:40

But Mrs Mullins, who is the carousel owner, she hears of this and wishes to rehire Billy back, but only if he leaves his wife. Oh, because she knows about, I guess, the domestic violence. But Julie informs him that she's pregnant. So there's another plot twist.

Speaker 5 25:57

Yes, and they have to find ways to. You know, take care of this baby, yeah right, so Billy wants to.

Speaker 3 26:03

They lost their jobs yeah, he's happy that she's pregnant, but he doesn't take the work. Yeah, he doesn't take the work from her.

Speaker 4 26:10

So he doesn't go back to the carousel at the carnival.

Speaker 3 26:14

No, he secretly agrees to join his pal. His name is Jigger.

Speaker 4 26:19

Oh, there you go. Anybody named Jigger, this is going to be yeah, and they're going to be robbing.

Speaker 3 26:25

They're robbers, oh man, yeah. So why did he choose that instead? I don't know.

Speaker 4 26:32

Oh, easy money, Easy money, that's easy money. Come on, we just set up a few places, we can make some money.

Speaker 5 26:40

Yeah, yeah. See, that's where they had to find other ways.

Speaker 3 26:44

Right. So then, apparently with the movie, during the clam bake on this island, billy and Jigger sneak onto the mainland to, you know, do this robbery, but Bascombe, who is usually unarmed this guy doesn't have any guns carries a gun and the robbery is foiled. Oh, so they flee and Billy leaves because the police are there. So Billy climbs on top of some crates or something like that, and they collapse and Billy falls onto his own knife.

Speaker 4 27:13

Again falling onto who fell on their own knife. There's violence in here Didn't Judd fall on his. Yes, judd fell on his own knife.

Speaker 5 27:22

Yeah, in Oklahoma, and that was where they were different. The difference between the movie and the stage performance at the end was that knife Wow.

Speaker 4 27:32

Yeah, so I guess back then you carried a knife and you fell on it.

Speaker 3 27:37

Yeah, but then he goes back and you know Julie sees that he's wounded so she rushes him, you know, to get help, but he dies from this wound.

Speaker 4 27:46

Okay.

Speaker 3 27:47

Yeah.

Speaker 4 27:48

Okay, well, I think it goes on to kind of have sort of what's the Patrick Swayze movie where he dies Ghost? I think it kind of has sort of a ghost story to it where he comes back and he lives. He changes his life a little bit, he gets a redo and he gets to live his life a little better, and I believe that's what I read.

Speaker 3 28:14

Right, but then part of the movie too. 15 years later, Billy's told he can return to Earth for one day to make amends for it.

Speaker 4 28:22

Right, that's what I mean. He gets to come back for one day and do aends for it. Right, that's what I mean. Yeah, he gets to come back for one day and do a redo, yeah, right.

Speaker 3 28:28

But then he finds you know, comes back and finds his daughter, louise. Her name's Louise. She's scarred from the taunting because her father tried to commit a robbery. So, without disclosing his identity to Louise, he makes himself visible, tries to raise her spirits, gives her a star that he stole from heaven, but the dog doesn't know it's her father, right, yeah. Louise is frightened and she refuses the star, but Billy really wants to give it to her, so he slaps it on her hand and she rushes in the house. She informs Julie of what happened, saying she did not feel a slap, but she felt a kiss. So I guess it's really both.

Speaker 4 29:06

So, like I said, it's like the movie goes, they come back in spirit and they are with the people that they love and they're helping them. And this is his redo, his amends.

Speaker 3 29:19

Let's fix this for my daughter, but his daughter can see him, but he makes himself invisible to Julie Right. So she can't see him, but he makes himself invisible to Julie Right. So she can't see him.

Speaker 4 29:27

He does not want his wife to see him.

Speaker 5 29:29

Right, see girls. I didn't see that part of it, so that might be why I didn't know that it connected with the Patrick Swayze movie.

Speaker 3 29:36

Yeah. But, he comes back for her to his daughter. Yeah, I didn't see that.

Speaker 4 29:41

Basically wraps it up and, like I said, all these 1950s musicals kind of have a dark. Yeah, I mean we got people falling on knives and dying and committing robbery. I thought it was about a carnival.

Speaker 5 29:59

But even so overall it still gives you maybe not Carousel, but the one I watch with the oklahoma and the music man just gives you that good, warm feeling of back. Then you know, in a good way it doesn't have to be as ugly as some movies they make now you know why they're more talent more talent because they put in all that upbeat, beautiful roger and hammerstein music.

Speaker 4 30:22

Yes, they cover, they make these little dark plots and put all that great music over it.

Speaker 3 30:30

Yes, there's always music with these Well, singing, dancing musical. Now there's death. I mean, there is a soundtrack for it. There's two songs recorded for the film. It's called You're a Queer One, julie Jordan. Okay, that says something. And another song called Blow One, julie Jordan. Okay, that says something. And another song called Blow High, blow Low.

Speaker 4 30:49

Oh well, we'll walk away from that. Oh wait, no.

Speaker 3 30:52

Let me correct that. Those were the two removed in order. You know there was time constraints. Oh, okay, those were the choices.

Speaker 5 31:00

That makes sense.

Speaker 3 31:01

Those were the two songs that were removed from the movie. That's funny. There was a popular song from Carousel that we know from Sean's shows, and it was called If I Loved you. Oh, it rings a bell. Sean sings it in his show. Yes, and the movie was performed by Shirley Jones and Gordon McRae. Yes, yes, okay.

Speaker 2 31:23

If I loved you Time and again, I would try to say all I'd want you to know. If I loved you, words wouldn't come in an easy way Round in circles, I'd go.

Speaker 3 32:03

And okay, another one. You'll Never Walk Alone. Everybody's heard of that one.

Speaker 1 32:07

That sounds good.

Speaker 3 32:25

Yeah, those are the two most popular ones for that movie From Carousel. Okay, that sounds good. Yeah, those are the two most popular ones from that movie From Carousel. There's more on. Yeah, there's a list of them, but those are the two popular ones. Yes, oh. But I do want to mention one more thing for Carousel. Okay, okay, carousel opened on February 16th 1956. And her and Jack ended up getting married August 6th of 1956. So when that movie came out, that's when Shirley and Jack became a union. Oh, okay, yeah, when Carousel was popular. So, okay, let's bring up the next movie, which is called Elmer Gantry, and this was released in 1960. Released in 1960. And this one was the one where she won her Oscar. Oh, yes.

Speaker 1 33:11

Playing.

Elmer Gantry Movie Discussion

Speaker 3 33:11

Lulu Baines. Lulu Baines, and I'll tell you a little bit about it. She was Best Supporting Actress yes, best Supporting Actress, I'll tell you too, like who won some awards with this one. It was a drama. It wasn't a musical. This was a drama. So this was different for Shirley to be in and it was about a confident man and this female evangelist. She wanted to go traveling selling a religion, you know, to small towns Another traveling type movie and they would go town to town to do this.

Speaker 4 33:45

They have like tent revivals. Yeah, back in the 30s they had these things out. They're trying to rejuvenate towns with Christianity, and so they invite them to these big tents and have these revivals.

Speaker 5 34:01

Right. Well, girls, I think the best part of this whole movie was at the beginning when it said beware to you know, like to children, that this is not the way Christianity is. And I know we're not talking religion right now, but yeah, but that was really my defense in not watching the whole thing because it could give the wrong idea to people that there's a con in Right.

Speaker 3 34:26

Yeah, so this is the plot of the of the movie in a pastor yeah, so this is the plot of the movie. Elmer Gantry, who is the main star of the movie, is a hard-drinking, fast-talking, traveling salesman. Of course, he's very charismatic with his personality and he tries to sell this biblical passages in a way to collect money. He's very Right how those evangelists always act. They're very Powerful, powerful, yes, to get money. They want to get your money. So he's drawn to this roadside show and this lady called Sister Sharon Falconer she's the one with these tent revivals or whatever it is yeah, and he's immediately attracted to her and decided that, you know, he sweet talks her and he joins her on this tent revival tour.

Speaker 4 35:14

That's exactly what it is. Even the newspaper guy basically broke it down and called it a circus. He said this is simply just a circus.

Speaker 3 35:23

Right, with just a tent revival in it.

Speaker 4 35:25

Yeah, that's all it truly is, If you look at it in simple terms. They took Christianity, put it on this road, made a show of it and sold you on the concept.

Speaker 3 35:40

But he's basically a con man, so he's conning his way into her good graces to join her. So this is basically what the movie's about.

Speaker 4 35:48

Now his backstory is he was a fallen minister because the man just can't stop philandering, drinking and gambling. He has his downside, that's a good point, dorese.

Speaker 5 36:01

Maybe that's why, because he knows that he can't sell it, because he likes all that stuff and you really can't be an evangelist and be into all that.

Speaker 4 36:11

But on the other hand, dame, he's an excellent salesman, so he's like I can use my gift of sales, and he figured out how to word it, so it made it dark. Yeah, you had Sister Sharon Faulkner, who was the sweet angelic. Come with me and follow this passage and you'll go to heaven.

Speaker 3 36:35

Right plus, and then you had him. Yeah, then they're trying to convince the people in the tent that they must earn the money to stay open. And they give them this big spiel of you know, donate to this church because it's worthwhile cause. Right yeah, selling the goods to them.

Speaker 4 36:52

And in this case the goods was Christianity. Her role comes in halfway through the movie Prostitute.

Speaker 3 37:00

Yeah.

Speaker 4 37:00

Now, elmer had his way with her. They were kind of lovers, and her father basically threw her out of the house and she had to go and become a prostitute.

Speaker 3 37:14

Well, Lulu Bain sees this team together Because she used to go out with Gantry, right, yeah, so she sees it, but she's kind of mad about it, because when they were younger, yeah, they had an affair, but Gantry didn't want to continue it. So now she's got this.

Speaker 4 37:32

Because he was a philandering, he was not one woman man and he loved to go and be with other women, plus her father was a minister, and her dad was a minister.

Speaker 3 37:45

So this kind of fell apart and Gantry took off and couldn't counter, I guess.

Speaker 4 37:50

So Lulu decides she's jealous of Elmer and his relationship with Sister Sharon Because, whatever you say about the relationship, it was working. He had his style, she had her style. They were going to these towns and they were bringing in people and these revivals, and that's what they were supposed to do and they were doing it Right. So Lulu now get a load of this. Elmer says let's go bust up the brothel, because now he's big shot. He's like not only are we going to have tent revivals, we're going to clean up these towns while we're here. Right, you cops can't seem to do it, but guess what we can? Whose brothel does he go and bust up? Lulu's? Yep, so Lulu's. He sees Lulu and he decides let's just ship these women out of town, don't send them to jail.

Speaker 3 38:51

Yeah, but Lulu wants revenge against Gantry because he ran her out of Kansas where she was living. Yep.

Speaker 4 38:58

Mm-hmm. So guess what? How does she get her revenge?

Speaker 3 39:01

She sets him up Right With some pictures.

Speaker 4 39:05

She lures him back to the scene in the hotel and tells because the newspaper man, he's not all on, he's kind of in the middle. He's like I'm not liking this whole tent revival circus show you people put on Because, remember, he says he's not 100% Christian but he's not atheist and he certainly don't believe in devil. He's just not in all of it, right. So he's like why don't you set up this Elmer Gantry? He's not who he says he is. And she says okay, I can set him up, Yep.

Speaker 3 39:40

So she calls him, says come on over. She's kind of be nice to him.

Speaker 4 39:44

Mm-hmm, seduces him, mm-hmm, and she gets him in the room Right and he doesn't quite go for it, and I think she's a little bit changing her mind, until she gets to the part where she wants to really get the picture, the money picture, because the guy is hiding across the street. Yeah.

Speaker 3 40:05

He's in the bushes and he's like I want the money picture.

Speaker 4 40:08

So she gets the kiss and guess what? She turns on the tears and says I need money, I don't have anywhere to stay. And he hands her money for not for being a John to help her, help her out, right. But the picture says another story. So the pictures go out All over the newspaper and Sharon, the minister, says another story.

Speaker 3 40:28

So the pictures go out.

Speaker 4 40:30

All over the newspaper.

Speaker 3 40:31

And Sharon, the minister, sees it.

Speaker 4 40:34

Yep.

Speaker 3 40:34

Yep. So she tries to bring money over to Lulu to pay her off for the negatives.

Speaker 4 40:39

Yes, now, sharon, she's got big dreams. She wants her tabernacle, she wants a big church, she wants it, that's what she wants.

Speaker 3 40:50

She's serious about it.

Speaker 4 40:51

And she wants this and she's been dreaming of it and she wants to get that church going and Elmer, he just wants to be Elmer and so she takes this money because she will not have this ruin her dream. So she takes the $25,000000 and she goes to pay off Lulu.

Speaker 3 41:12

And they meet, and they meet. She only has like three scenes in this movie. This is the third scene. This is the third scene.

Speaker 4 41:19

Yes, and she basically doesn't take the money.

Speaker 3 41:23

No, I think she kind of laughed about it too, didn't she?

Speaker 4 41:26

Laughed right in her face yeah, like I'm not doing that, I'm not doing that. She goes back to her room, to the brothel, and her pimp shows up. Yes, I didn't like that part, slaps her to tomorrow and tells her you didn't take the money because you're still in love with Elmer gantry. Just a minute, well and she took it. She took the beating laid there and took it.

Speaker 4 41:53

She didn't scream she didn't cry nothing, and I think that's where the academy award winning performance comes in. She took her beating, she took it, yeah well guess who comes?

Speaker 5 42:06

yeah, comes to rescue her. But with that movie, of course, I expected something cute. I didn't even look into it before seeing pieces of it and you know it's an artist. And maybe that's why she won the award, because it was something that was shocking as an artist, you step outside your comfort zone and you perform in different roles.

Speaker 4 42:33

step outside your comfort zone and you perform in different roles. And in early 60s, in 1960 itself, I can see why they would have had to put that disclaimer at the beginning of a movie.

Speaker 5 42:38

Right.

Speaker 4 42:39

The good news is the movie had Shirley Jones, and her role as Lulu Baines got her Best Supporting Actress.

Speaker 3 42:51

Plus, I want to let you know something else from her book. Shirley writes that people didn't consider her to be anything but a singer who starred in musicals. Exactly so this part came about because she wanted to prove that she was a serious actress, that she could do serious drama and be taken seriously. So this was why she accepted this role in this movie even though it wasn't the main role, it was a serious role, so this is what she wanted to try out. You don't want to sit there and be typecast.

Speaker 4 43:22

Right. She did not want to be typecast as Roger Hammerstein singing leading lady. That's all she was doing and she moved into Elmer Gantry and she the few scenes she had. She did well with them. She really did do well with those scenes.

Speaker 3 43:45

But I thought it was funny when she took this part. She got a call from Burt Lancaster. Okay, she said she was doing some other show at a hotel and the phone rang and he said this is Burt Lancaster. And she said Burt Lancaster, burt Lancaster, my teen idol, Must be a joke and she hung up on him. So Shirley has her own teen idols also. Burt Lancaster was one of her teen idols. I thought that was cute. Everybody has a teen idol. Apparently Everybody does.

Speaker 4 44:17

Yes, and the movie Amagantry. It wasn't what I thought it was, but I thought it was pretty good From 1960, it told pretty good for 1960. It told a good story and it reminds me that you can sell everything. Yeah, that's what it was. They were selling Right, wrong or indifferent. That's what the plot of the movie was.

Speaker 3 44:45

Yeah, and Burt Lancaster wanted her to play this role. He picked her for this role. That's why he called her and he says I would like you to think about playing this role of Lulu Baines. Can you come out and meet Richard Brooks, who was the director?

Speaker 4 45:09

Well see, he knew that she could step outside of that role of the singing musical girl and play such a very dramatic role, yep.

Speaker 3 45:12

And then she won her Oscar, actually, for that movie. She won Best Supporting Actress, yes, and Burt Lancaster won Best Actor for that. It also won Best Screenplay based on material from another medium. It won three awards for that movie.

Speaker 4 45:32

Yeah, it was a book and the book was actually pretty short. If I remember correctly, the book was only like a little over 100 pages.

Speaker 3 45:41

It was also nominated for Best Motion Picture but it didn't win. I'm not sure what movie won that year, but it was up for one, two, three, four, about five awards and other awards too, with other award shows, golden Globes, the Golden Globes you know it was appearing in a lot of even British Academy Film Awards it was up for.

Speaker 4 46:01

It was very highly acclaimed. Yeah, it did win. It won a lot of awards, yeah.

Speaker 3 46:07

Golden Globes it did win Best Actor in a Motion Picture, so Burt Lancaster won a few awards there.

Speaker 4 46:13

That's great.

Speaker 5 46:14

Yeah, well, I'm always a little bit different, I guess, than the norm, because I couldn't watch it.

Speaker 3 46:20

That's okay, but you know every movie's not for everybody.

Speaker 4 46:23

But I brought up and maybe we could segue back to this the traveling salesman, that in this movie Elmer Gantry was a traveling salesman and I guess you can sell anything to anybody, right? And I bring that up because the next movie we're going to talk about is the Music man.

Speaker 3 46:46

The Music man yes, yes, yes, I love this one.

Speaker 4 46:50

Now, the Music man came out in 1962, and it was a movie starring Robert Preston as Harold Hill and Shirley Jones was Marion the librarian.

Speaker 3 47:03

Marion the librarian yes, that's funny and it had little Ronnie Howard in it as her little brother Winthrop so cute.

Speaker 4 47:11

Yeah, she loved working with him 1962, she did the Music man and I'm going to tell you a little bit about what the Music man is about, and then we'll talk about it.

Speaker 5 47:23

Yeah, girls.

The Music Man Analysis

Speaker 4 47:24

I like this movie a lot. Okay so the Music man is a musical with book music and lyrics by Meredith Wilson, and it's based on the story by Wilson and Franklin Lacey. The plot concerns a con man, harold Hill, who poses as a boys band organizer and leader and sells band instruments and uniforms to naive Midwestern town folk. So Meredith Wilson was inspired by his Mason City, iowa town, to write and compose the music for the Music man. The Music man is set in Iowa. It's about this guy, robert Preston's character, hill. He's running around all over the country selling something that he can't produce Music. He can't give music lessons, he's not a musician but he makes people believe it.

Speaker 4 48:30

Even remember another movie based in the early 1900s that won the Academy Award for Jodie Foster Paper Moon. Yes, her dad was a traveling salesman in the movie. They ran around selling Bibles. Everybody was traveling salesmen in those days. You got Robert Flerston who plays Harold Hill. Harold Hill is the band leader and he's trying to make all these people believe that they could get their boys in the town to play instruments Right Now. The reason he wants them to do that. Why? Why would all these people want their kids playing instruments? Because a pool table comes to town.

Speaker 5 49:15

Yeah, the pool table, it was coming to town and he wanted them to think differently.

Speaker 4 49:19

And he wanted them to believe and this is the lead-in to my favorite song of the movie he wanted them to believe that that pool table was trouble.

Speaker 2 49:44

The song in the movie, the music Plymouth Rock and the Golden Rule. We got trouble. We're in terrible, terrible trouble.

Speaker 4 49:53

That game with the 15-numbered balls is the devil's tool.

Speaker 2 49:57

Yes, we got trouble, trouble, trouble.

Speaker 4 50:00

And it goes. You got trouble folks right here in River City Trouble with a capital T and that that rhymes with P and that stands for pool. He goes through the whole opening scene singing this story on how this pool hall is going to make these boys just the worst people in the world and they need to be in a band.

Speaker 3 50:26

Just get them out of that pool hall Just to organize them somehow.

Speaker 5 50:31

So what I saw with it, darius, was that there's a bunch of these guys. They're on the train. They were going to Iowa At first. Everyone is very rude to him. The salesman that you're talking about, um, surely plays the librarian, and Marion Marion the librarian.

Speaker 5 50:45

Yeah, she was. She was willed these books, I guess, but not the library. The library was willed to the whole town, but she received the book. So she was this bright woman that knew exactly what she wanted and lived in books, you know. So you can think of other people that are similar to her, you know, with their expectations. Well, shirley's mom wants her to find a man, but that no man. She told her daughter this no man was ever going to add up to her. Is that her aunt, or was that her mom?

Speaker 4 51:13

That's her mom and that leads me to a good. I mean, that is her mom, but go ahead with your story. I have a good theory on that.

Speaker 5 51:21

Okay, but her mom was frustrated because she wanted her to find a man. But Shirley makes fun of the salesman that everyone is liking and she is smart aleck to him, just like she is in the Oklahoma show.

Speaker 4 51:35

She's not buying his car.

Speaker 5 51:37

No she's not going to, she goes. I am not going to be like everyone and I'm not going to be someone that likes your voice and gives you compliments, blah, blah, blah. Someone that likes your voice and gives you compliments, blah, blah, blah, blah. And yet that's what he did. He would go around and give music not give them, but he would compliment people. He would even tell them that their cheek muscles were good and so that would sell some, sell an instrument to them. At first they were defensive, like her, and then they would change. He knew how to sell things and he'd get those signatures and he would tell them that they're going to get their instruments someday. But it was funny to see. It was funny to see Shirley dancing in the library and then the guys dancing with him too, which how does that go with the whole movie, but it was cute.

Speaker 4 52:26

Marion had a dance scene in the library.

Speaker 5 52:30

Yes, that was funny.

Speaker 4 52:31

With all the other people who were at the library, but the funniest part about it. Okay, so you have Marion, you have Ronnie Howard, her little brother Winthrop, and you have her mother. Now there's an Internet theory. I'm not saying I buy it, it's just one of these little Internet theories that's out there. If you read deep enough about the movie the Music man, you can find all these theories. But Marion is old enough to be Winthrop's mother, so the theory goes the theory goes the man who willed Marion the books was her lover.

Speaker 1 53:18

And Marion got pregnant and was sent away.

Speaker 4 53:20

That's the theory. And then she had Winthrop and her mom raised Winthrop as her son and Marion as her daughter, and that's one of the I'm just telling you you could find a little hit and dark thing.

Speaker 3 53:36

Well, I was kind of confused about it too, because, yeah, it does look like okay, her mom and then her, and then the little kid would be her kid, shirley's son.

Speaker 4 53:46

It would be Marion's son, and Winthrop is all of maybe five, yeah, and Marion is all of maybe 25.

Speaker 3 53:55

Right, so you have this kid, but she does say that in the movie, though. This is my brother. Yes and everyone knows, she does call him that.

Speaker 4 54:02

But think about it. There are these gossip women in town and there's even a whole scene in the movie about them clucking. They cluck like chickens and there's a scene.

Speaker 5 54:14

Oh, their hats. Yes, you saw their hats, yes, On top of their hat.

Speaker 4 54:18

They were chickens. So they hint that the gossip women believe that Marion did not go away to do whatever she did, that Winthrop is her son and that's what happened and that's why they believe the man left her the books. And that's the hint. No, I did not. The behind the scenes little guy, hmm, interesting. If you read enough about the music man, those are all a little backstory behind the scene hits that they tell you and you have. I love this movie, I really do. I watch it every July 4th on Turner Classic Movies. It's such a great pick-me-up movie for me. I love all the songs in it. You can't help singing 76 trombones.

Speaker 3 55:11

It's such a good movie, yeah, I liked it. I liked that one. That was the first one I watched and I liked that one. But I see with all these movies the same storyline type.

Speaker 5 55:24

I actually, when I was reading Shirley's book I read that she said that she loved that little boy. You know he knew his lines really well.

Speaker 3 55:32

Oh, he was very professional.

Speaker 5 55:34

Yeah, ronnie Howard, he was shy. His dad was on the set all the time, so she liked that. But she was also pregnant in the movie and she did not want to talk about that or let anybody know, right. Want to talk about that or let anybody know, right? And then towards the end she had to. They had to hide the pregnancy, but I know that she decided to take, was it? The producer invited the producer to a lunch where she would tell him, and she knew that he wouldn't cast her out by this time because she had already done too many scenes. But Shirley warned that she wasn't, that this was happening, and so they had to film her from the waist up, like we were saying. Also, she had warned them of something else. She warned them that she wasn't a dancer, but then she was told by the time the movie was finished that she'd be the best one around.

Speaker 3 56:27

She held her own. Yeah, she said in the book I'm truly not a dancer, but she'd be the best one around. She held her own. Yeah, she said in the book I'm truly not a dancer, but she did take lessons. Yeah, and this movie, this is where that story comes from. That popular story about Patrick oh, okay, yes, there are popular story about Patrick. They were doing a scene at the bridge, embraced yeah, they got close enough in an embracement and then Patrick kicked him.

Speaker 5 56:50

Oh, that's funny.

Speaker 3 56:51

Apparently Patrick. Yeah, patrick met him years later and said hey, I kicked you A formal introduction. And yeah, that was kind of funny. Not a lot of people knew she was pregnant in the movie I guess, but she knew by the time she would tell him and take him to lunch.

Speaker 5 57:10

She knew exactly how to do it. Well, it sounds like Shirley. She was very professional and she knew the time, so it all worked out.

Speaker 4 57:19

Well, that kind of leads me in a little bit to another movie that was made in 1963 that we didn't watch, but it's called the Courtship of Eddie's Father and it had a TV show based on this movie. The TV show had Bill Bitsby as the leading guy, tom, and you had Brandon Cruz was his son, eddie. Well, in the movie the Courtship of Eddie's Father, glenn Ford played the father and Ronnie Howard played Eddie, and it was some oh, ronnie. Yeah, his name in the credits back then was Ronnie Howard. It's a fun movie. Again, it's not a musical, it's a movie comedy, and it's about this widowed man and he's trying to get remarried and there's this kind of snooty lady. I think he's even planning to marry her, but the girl, the woman, doesn't get along with Eddie. Well, shirley Jones's character lives next door, her name is Elizabeth and the whole time she's right up under the dad's nose, the whole time he's seeing all these women and I think in the end they wind up together.

Speaker 3 58:34

Yeah, I like that show.

Speaker 4 58:36

It's a really cute movie. And it does have a lot of good scenes. But Ronnie Howard got to work with Shirley Jones a second time and he was really good in the Music man and he held his own very well in the courtship of Eddie's father.

Speaker 5 58:57

Well, girls, all of this is such an honor to Shirley. I know that she is getting ready to have her 90th birthday Today.

Speaker 4 59:04

we covered just a few of Shirley's accomplishments. We talked about Oklahoma, we talked about the Music man. We talked about Elmer Gantry, which won her an Academy Award. We have just started. We're going to do the second half of her life and we're going to talk about Shirley as a mom, Shirley as a wife and what happened after these movies.

Early Career of Shirley Jones Discussion

Speaker 3 59:30

After these movies, because there was more. This is just the beginning, yes, so we hope that you will tune in for part two.

Speaker 4 59:38

We hope you really enjoyed this discussion about the early career of Shirley Jones.

Speaker 3 1:00:31

Thank you from the bottom of our teen dream hearts. Keep on crushing. Always believe in magic.

Speaker 5 1:00:37

And have a peaceful, shuntastic week, and don't forget to follow us on Facebook, instagram Thread and subscribe to our new YouTube page thread and subscribe to our new YouTube page.

Speaker 4 1:00:51

Make sure to keep in touch with us at our email SeanSquadSociety at gmailcom.

Speaker 3 1:00:55

The Sean Squad Society podcast, including past, present and future versions, and its contents are owned and controlled by the Sean Squad Society. The podcast is written, produced and recorded at the Borden Studios and the views and opinions are solely those of the Chantois Society podcast. We may think we are always right, but we may get things wrong from time to time, so we assume no responsibility for errors of submission of content.